Top Hat

[6PK]

Since my last security update on my phone, Galaxy s21, TopHat quit working.
I deleted and tried reloading but the ap does not exists any longer at the "play store".
I tried downloading it direct from the Tophat website, but a Samsung tab claims the ap is not compatible.
I have an older tablet (I am actually using it for navigation) it still works fortunately.
Any advice?

[Dan Marotta]

Try XCSoar just to see if it works on your phone.

Dan 5J

Post by 6PK
Since my last security update on my phone, Galaxy s21, TopHat quit working.
I deleted and tried reloading but the ap does not exists any longer at the "play store".
I tried downloading it direct from the Tophat website, but a Samsung tab claims the ap is not compatible.
I have an older tablet (I am actually using it for navigation) it still works fortunately.
Any advice?

[Moshe Braner]

Post by 6PK
Since my last security update on my phone, Galaxy s21, TopHat quit working.
I deleted and tried reloading but the ap does not exists any longer at the "play store".
I tried downloading it direct from the Tophat website, but a Samsung tab claims the ap is not compatible.
I have an older tablet (I am actually using it for navigation) it still works fortunately.
Any advice?

I like the Tophat UI (its main contribution) better than XCsoar. My
advice: get an old Android device (phone, tablet, or e-reader) and run
Tophat on it. Used Android devices are cheap. For Tophat, I suggest
Android version 7 or earlier. It seems to also run on some later
versions of Android on some devices, but it's hit and miss. Save your
main phone for after-landout use. I do also have Tophat on my main
phone as a backup, but my main phone is old (and does not update behind
my back)

[6PK]

Post by 6PK
Since my last security update on my phone, Galaxy s21, TopHat quit working.
I deleted and tried reloading but the ap does not exists any longer at the "play store".
I tried downloading it direct from the Tophat website, but a Samsung tab claims the ap is not compatible.
I have an older tablet (I am actually using it for navigation) it still works fortunately.
Any advice?

I like the Tophat UI (its main contribution) better than XCsoar. My
advice: get an old Android device (phone, tablet, or e-reader) and run
Tophat on it. Used Android devices are cheap. For Tophat, I suggest
Android version 7 or earlier. It seems to also run on some later
versions of Android on some devices, but it's hit and miss. Save your
main phone for after-landout use. I do also have Tophat on my main
phone as a backup, but my main phone is old (and does not update behind
my back)

Dan and Moshe,
Thank you for your responses.
I do have XcSoar on my Samsung and it works just fine, but like Moshe I prefer TopHat.
I used the Samsung S21 with TopHat as a "backup", and I use an older Nexus for navigation, I guess I will revert back to XcSoar if need be.
Although it is hard to complain about free, it is sad to see a really well thought out system become absolite.

[Dan Marotta]

I thought the only difference between XCSoar and TopHat was the user
interface.  I can't imagine why the TopHat folks would change something
and make it no longer with your newer Android version. Maybe they just
haven't caught up yet.

I still use XCSoar on a Dell Streak 5 (I've got about three of them) on
the right side of the Stemme but I have ClearNav on the left side for me.

Dan 5J

Post by 6PK

Post by 6PK
Since my last security update on my phone, Galaxy s21, TopHat quit working.
I deleted and tried reloading but the ap does not exists any longer at the "play store".
I tried downloading it direct from the Tophat website, but a Samsung tab claims the ap is not compatible.
I have an older tablet (I am actually using it for navigation) it still works fortunately.
Any advice?

I like the Tophat UI (its main contribution) better than XCsoar. My
advice: get an old Android device (phone, tablet, or e-reader) and run
Tophat on it. Used Android devices are cheap. For Tophat, I suggest
Android version 7 or earlier. It seems to also run on some later
versions of Android on some devices, but it's hit and miss. Save your
main phone for after-landout use. I do also have Tophat on my main
phone as a backup, but my main phone is old (and does not update behind
my back)

Dan and Moshe,
Thank you for your responses.
I do have XcSoar on my Samsung and it works just fine, but like Moshe I prefer TopHat.
I used the Samsung S21 with TopHat as a "backup", and I use an older Nexus for navigation, I guess I will revert back to XcSoar if need be.
Although it is hard to complain about free, it is sad to see a really well thought out system become absolite.

[Moshe Braner]

Post by Dan Marotta
I thought the only difference between XCSoar and TopHat was the user
interface.  I can't imagine why the TopHat folks would change something
and make it no longer with your newer Android version. Maybe they just
haven't caught up yet.

Ahem. XCsoar is under constant development by a sizeable group of
developers. Not so for Tophat, those "they" are nonexistent.

Tophat was created as a better UI on top of XCsoar version 6.8, circa
2012 or so. It was created almost single-handedly by Robert Dunning.
He supported it for a while. Then, in 2017 or so he abandoned his life
in tech - and soaring - and started a new life on a farm. Tophat has
sat pretty much untouched since. We are very lucky that Robert got it
as far as he had.

And it's open-source, so anybody can pick it up again. Robert even left
us a "virtual machine image" so you can re-create the exact environment
he used for compiling Tophat - in 2017. Several people have used that
tool. I have made a few small changes * in Tophat for my own use.

But the real challenge is to re-create the Tophat UI on top of a more
current version of XCsoar. XCsoar has changed enough in the last decade
that this is a yuuuuge project. Robert changed (or wrote from scratch)
140 source files to convert XCsoar to Tophat. This needs to be done
over again. And the mysteries of compiling for Android are opaque to
me. If several people with the right skills get together and work on
this, it can happen. I'm willing to do some of this work.

*) Carried over from XCsoar the device driver for XCvario. And made
Tophat display FLARM traffic for 20 seconds after the signal drops out,
rather than 5 seconds - that helps a lot when trying to spot my buddies
from afar.

[6PK]

Post by Dan Marotta
I thought the only difference between XCSoar and TopHat was the user
interface. I can't imagine why the TopHat folks would change something
and make it no longer with your newer Android version. Maybe they just
haven't caught up yet.

Ahem. XCsoar is under constant development by a sizeable group of
developers. Not so for Tophat, those "they" are nonexistent.
Tophat was created as a better UI on top of XCsoar version 6.8, circa
2012 or so. It was created almost single-handedly by Robert Dunning.
He supported it for a while. Then, in 2017 or so he abandoned his life
in tech - and soaring - and started a new life on a farm. Tophat has
sat pretty much untouched since. We are very lucky that Robert got it
as far as he had.
And it's open-source, so anybody can pick it up again. Robert even left
us a "virtual machine image" so you can re-create the exact environment
he used for compiling Tophat - in 2017. Several people have used that
tool. I have made a few small changes * in Tophat for my own use.
But the real challenge is to re-create the Tophat UI on top of a more
current version of XCsoar. XCsoar has changed enough in the last decade
that this is a yuuuuge project. Robert changed (or wrote from scratch)
140 source files to convert XCsoar to Tophat. This needs to be done
over again. And the mysteries of compiling for Android are opaque to
me. If several people with the right skills get together and work on
this, it can happen. I'm willing to do some of this work.
*) Carried over from XCsoar the device driver for XCvario. And made
Tophat display FLARM traffic for 20 seconds after the signal drops out,
rather than 5 seconds - that helps a lot when trying to spot my buddies
from afar.

Moshe, I'm willing to help. The only minor issue: when it comes to programing, I'm at a loss;-)

[Dan Marotta]

That's very interesting, Moshe.

My Dell Streaks are running Android 3.11 (I think) and can't be upgraded
so I highly doubt they'd run with a current version of XCSoar.

I'm curious - given that XCSoar has been maintained and developed over
all these years, I've got to ask:  Is the TopHat GUI so much better than
that of XCSoar that you would rather keep the old thing that you're used
to rather than learn and discover the latest and greatest?  That is not
a jibe, I've stuck with the old XCSoar because I have so many Streaks to
use up and, when I retire from soaring, I'll still have at least one. 
It's not worth it to me to get a new device to play the latest program. 
For the same reason I stick with my old ClearNav rather than pop for a
brand-new LX 9billion with internet connectivity and maintenance of my
grocery shopping list.

I keep trying to get my wife to take a look at the software.  She was a
programmer from the mid-70s until around the mid-90s and the last
language she used was C++.  She doesn't think she'd have much chance
taking that on...

Dan 5J

Post by Dan Marotta
I thought the only difference between XCSoar and TopHat was the user
interface.  I can't imagine why the TopHat folks would change
something and make it no longer with your newer Android version.
Maybe they just haven't caught up yet.

Ahem.  XCsoar is under constant development by a sizeable group of
developers.  Not so for Tophat, those "they" are nonexistent.
Tophat was created as a better UI on top of XCsoar version 6.8, circa
2012 or so.  It was created almost single-handedly by Robert Dunning.
He supported it for a while.  Then, in 2017 or so he abandoned his
life in tech - and soaring - and started a new life on a farm.  Tophat
has sat pretty much untouched since.  We are very lucky that Robert
got it as far as he had.
And it's open-source, so anybody can pick it up again.  Robert even
left us a "virtual machine image" so you can re-create the exact
environment he used for compiling Tophat - in 2017.  Several people
have used that tool.  I have made a few small changes * in Tophat for
my own use.
But the real challenge is to re-create the Tophat UI on top of a more
current version of XCsoar.  XCsoar has changed enough in the last
decade that this is a yuuuuge project.  Robert changed (or wrote from
scratch) 140 source files to convert XCsoar to Tophat. This needs to
be done over again.  And the mysteries of compiling for Android are
opaque to me.  If several people with the right skills get together
and work on this, it can happen.  I'm willing to do some of this work.
*) Carried over from XCsoar the device driver for XCvario.  And made
Tophat display FLARM traffic for 20 seconds after the signal drops
out, rather than 5 seconds - that helps a lot when trying to spot my
buddies from afar.

[Chip Bearden]

From my previous post a while ago (I had to look it up!):


"TopHat runs great on my Pixel 5a phone with Android 11 (screen visibility in sunlight is a different story but this is just a backup). BUT--you have to give the app permission to access files:
Settings>Apps>All Apps>Top Hat Soaring>Permissions>Files and enable Allow files access. You might have to enable Locations the same way, I can't remember. Thx to Roman Michalowski for this tip; he assured me this spring that TopHat still runs fine on the latest versions of Android."

Don't know if this will solve your problem but I had about given up on newer Android devices as a platform for TopHat until I made this change.

Count another enthusiast for TopHat's highly functional UI. I say "functional" because for contest flying, it provides nearly everything I need with few extraneous features or gadgets. I can jump in the cockpit after not flying for six months and be up and running on TopHat almost immediately, unlike my ClearNav vario, any number of modern flight computer apps, and--frankly--many modern automobiles. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my ClearNav vario. And I understand the new version addresses some of the more idiosyncratic aspects of the UI. But TopHat is much like my old GNII running on a Compaq 1550: just switch it on and launch. You can figure out the niceties on the fly, so to speak.

Chip Bearden
"JB"

[Dan Marotta]

Hmmmmmmm...  I just might have to give TopHat a look-see just to see tmy
wife would prefer the different interface.

Dan 5J

Post by Chip Bearden
Settings>Apps>All Apps>Top Hat Soaring>Permissions>Files and enable Allow files access. You might have to enable Locations the same way, I can't remember. Thx to Roman Michalowski for this tip; he assured me this spring that TopHat still runs fine on the latest versions of Android."
Don't know if this will solve your problem but I had about given up on newer Android devices as a platform for TopHat until I made this change.
Count another enthusiast for TopHat's highly functional UI. I say "functional" because for contest flying, it provides nearly everything I need with few extraneous features or gadgets. I can jump in the cockpit after not flying for six months and be up and running on TopHat almost immediately, unlike my ClearNav vario, any number of modern flight computer apps, and--frankly--many modern automobiles. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my ClearNav vario. And I understand the new version addresses some of the more idiosyncratic aspects of the UI. But TopHat is much like my old GNII running on a Compaq 1550: just switch it on and launch. You can figure out the niceties on the fly, so to speak.
Chip Bearden
"JB"